Q&A with Dr. Stephen Marshall
Pastor of Living Room Church and Author of "Live Life Strong"
Q: You talk about “Doormat theology” and “barnyard theology” in your new book, “LIVE LIFE STRONG.” Can you talk about what those mean?
A: In the book, I make reference to “doormat theology” and “barnyard doctrine” as a means of calling out the religious deception that keeps many good people weak and discouraged. Isaiah 40:31 says, “They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.” We know that the victory of Christ is certain. His championship at the cross is complete. So, the deception of buying into a doctrine or theology that has your own internal belief system at war with your true identity in Christ is nothing more than “barnyard doctrine.” God has called you to live like an eagle in Christ Jesus, but if you believe a lie… if you believe that God has summoned you to a doormat life … your false beliefs short-circuit your true calling, and God can’t interfere with that choice. Your power of choice and autonomy is part of free will. Think about the choice the whole nation of Israel made in the wilderness when they chose not to believe Joshua or Caleb. Instead, they believed an evil report, the barnyard doctrine of the other 10 spies. Because of that choice, Hebrews 3 says they died in the wilderness. That’s why Live Life Strong promotes the straight edge of God’s Word and at the same time, warns of the extreme deception of “barnyard doctrine.” God has called you to soar like an eagle, but you get to receive or reject that call.
Q: What are some of the heavier themes you touch on in “LIVE LIFE STRONG”?
A: I address all kinds of challenging issues in this book—everything from temptation, fear, and depression to success, health, and AI. The great thing about the Live Life Strong message in Christ is that it stands up to every difficult circumstance humanity faces. Throughout the book, I address the everyday challenges we all face, but I also frame this powerful message as God’s antidote to heavier themes such as mental health, physical sickness, moral failure, addiction, and dealing with the death of a loved one. These are principles from God’s Word I’ve experienced personally in overcoming suicidal thoughts as a young man, rising up out of poverty and sickness, doing things I never dreamed possible, and overcoming the grief of a hero dying. The Gospel message is for all of us, but how do we pursue and receive God’s saving truth? Ephesians 6:10 says to “be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.” It’s both an encouragement and correction to our thinking. None of us get permission to lay down and just give up, BUT we’re all invited to be strong in the Lord. That also means every one of us gets permission to access God’s unfailing joy which is our strength.
Q: How should we respond when our prayers are not answered in the way we wanted them to be?
A: Prayers not getting answered the way we want is a universal crisis to many people. This is an area where people begin to invent personal doctrines that differ from God’s unchanging truth. Throughout the Live Life Strong book, I encourage people over and over to return to the straight edge of God’s Word. Every chapter ends with a prayer based on praying God’s Word. AI is the talk of the world right now, but long before there was a world or even a galaxy, there was OI — God’s Original Intelligence, which is the fundamental infrastructure of all life. Ephesians 3:20 says, “God is able to do exceeding, abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us.” We know God never fails. I have a personal policy about my own prayers— If I don’t see what I want, get the answer I expect, than I recognize that God never fails, His promises are ‘yes’ & ‘amen,’ therefore, I need to course correct, adjust, persist, realize that even though I don’t see an answer yet, God is lovingly at work and wanting to bless me. All of this helps me apply James 1:3, which says “the trying of faith works patience.” You can’t be perfected in your faith without the working of patience, so again, we persist, knowing that our asking is always eclipsed by God’s answer. With His truth, we gain His perspective, which is infinitely broader than our weak, finite views.
A: In the book, I make reference to “doormat theology” and “barnyard doctrine” as a means of calling out the religious deception that keeps many good people weak and discouraged. Isaiah 40:31 says, “They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.” We know that the victory of Christ is certain. His championship at the cross is complete. So, the deception of buying into a doctrine or theology that has your own internal belief system at war with your true identity in Christ is nothing more than “barnyard doctrine.” God has called you to live like an eagle in Christ Jesus, but if you believe a lie… if you believe that God has summoned you to a doormat life … your false beliefs short-circuit your true calling, and God can’t interfere with that choice. Your power of choice and autonomy is part of free will. Think about the choice the whole nation of Israel made in the wilderness when they chose not to believe Joshua or Caleb. Instead, they believed an evil report, the barnyard doctrine of the other 10 spies. Because of that choice, Hebrews 3 says they died in the wilderness. That’s why Live Life Strong promotes the straight edge of God’s Word and at the same time, warns of the extreme deception of “barnyard doctrine.” God has called you to soar like an eagle, but you get to receive or reject that call.
Q: What are some of the heavier themes you touch on in “LIVE LIFE STRONG”?
A: I address all kinds of challenging issues in this book—everything from temptation, fear, and depression to success, health, and AI. The great thing about the Live Life Strong message in Christ is that it stands up to every difficult circumstance humanity faces. Throughout the book, I address the everyday challenges we all face, but I also frame this powerful message as God’s antidote to heavier themes such as mental health, physical sickness, moral failure, addiction, and dealing with the death of a loved one. These are principles from God’s Word I’ve experienced personally in overcoming suicidal thoughts as a young man, rising up out of poverty and sickness, doing things I never dreamed possible, and overcoming the grief of a hero dying. The Gospel message is for all of us, but how do we pursue and receive God’s saving truth? Ephesians 6:10 says to “be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.” It’s both an encouragement and correction to our thinking. None of us get permission to lay down and just give up, BUT we’re all invited to be strong in the Lord. That also means every one of us gets permission to access God’s unfailing joy which is our strength.
Q: How should we respond when our prayers are not answered in the way we wanted them to be?
A: Prayers not getting answered the way we want is a universal crisis to many people. This is an area where people begin to invent personal doctrines that differ from God’s unchanging truth. Throughout the Live Life Strong book, I encourage people over and over to return to the straight edge of God’s Word. Every chapter ends with a prayer based on praying God’s Word. AI is the talk of the world right now, but long before there was a world or even a galaxy, there was OI — God’s Original Intelligence, which is the fundamental infrastructure of all life. Ephesians 3:20 says, “God is able to do exceeding, abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us.” We know God never fails. I have a personal policy about my own prayers— If I don’t see what I want, get the answer I expect, than I recognize that God never fails, His promises are ‘yes’ & ‘amen,’ therefore, I need to course correct, adjust, persist, realize that even though I don’t see an answer yet, God is lovingly at work and wanting to bless me. All of this helps me apply James 1:3, which says “the trying of faith works patience.” You can’t be perfected in your faith without the working of patience, so again, we persist, knowing that our asking is always eclipsed by God’s answer. With His truth, we gain His perspective, which is infinitely broader than our weak, finite views.
Q: Talk about how Living Room Church came to be.
A: I have been on the road ministering in traditional churches of all denominations since I was 14 years old. My wife, Pam Thum, also grew up traveling the world, ministering from church to church to people everywhere. We were on staff for eight years at a traditional building-centric church, and then God directed us to a new season. I felt He was telling us He would take us to many communities around the world. Of course, we just assumed that would mean traveling everywhere again. It was 2019, and the Lord directed us to create video ministry exports and simply call it Living Room Church. A medium-sized fellowship reached out to us because their pastor had suddenly passed away. He had been there many years, and there were complicated concerns in the leadership. We provided them with these ministry videos through Living Room Church, and their fellowship and leadership began to grow. They went from being personality and building-centric to being Word-of-God-focused. While that was going on, suddenly people from other communities started joining us. Then in the middle of all that, the COVID pandemic hit. Living Room Church didn’t skip a beat. Of course, other ministries started doing online streaming during the pandemic, BUT Living Room Church was unique in that we weren’t modeled around the core demand for building attendance. We only have one priority—attendance to God’s Word. We have been told communities such as Alcoholics Anonymous share Living Room Church messages. Truckers and pilots indulge in God’s encouragement, sharing the daily prayers from Living Room Church. From college students to retirees, they’re reaching out to us enjoying God’s presence in their small groups. It truly has been an example of God showing us He remains ahead of the curve, setting us in the right place, even before plagues invade our world.
Q: How has the Living Room Church concept been uniquely different than pastoring a large traditional church?
A: Pastoring at a traditional church ministry has some definite muscle memory for Pam and me. Having grown up into it, traveling the world helping other pastors with their vision, and then pastoring full time in a large American evangelical church, it feels natural with predictable results. I think the uniqueness of what we do now with Living Room Church is that all the measurables have changed. Success in a traditional church is measured by people in the seats, hands raised at an altar call, dollars in the offering plate, and attendance at an event. I’ve been part of that for many years. The problem is that’s not what Jesus told us to do. He never specifically said make converts or attendees. He told us famously in Matthew 28:19, “Go and make disciples.” Measuring discipleship is quite complex with manmade standards.
For example, you can have a person faithfully volunteering for 20-plus years, taking all the awards for dedication to the organization, yet at the same time, be a failure at his marriage, raising children, or in his personal character. I’ve seen it happen and so have a thousand other pastors. The problem is, organizationally, you can only have one #1. When you’ve got millions of dollars in assets such as a church entity, you can unconsciously invert the priorities of God. When Genesis 1:26 sets the order of mankind having complete authority over the ‘stuff’ (paraphrase), the converse can become the subtle reality. Suddenly the ‘stuff’ has authority and rule over the people. When people serve the assets it’s contrary to God’s will, no matter how noble or religious it appears.
With Living Room Church, the number one priority is simply attendance to God’s Word and presence. Nothing competes with that. Of course, we have many measurables with social media and internet analytics, but the convincing anecdotal evidence is the lives transformed, homes changed, and families worshipping God together. The strange act of restricting faith from the rest of life by ritual and the walls of property attendance is disintegrated when you welcome God’s presence directly into your own living room. Those receiving Living Room Church ministry into their lives celebrate God’s presence in their homes, their world, and so they discover what Jesus said in John 15:7: “If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.” That’s a measurable that makes me excited to pastor because it promotes true Kingdom of God outcomes here on earth.
A: I have been on the road ministering in traditional churches of all denominations since I was 14 years old. My wife, Pam Thum, also grew up traveling the world, ministering from church to church to people everywhere. We were on staff for eight years at a traditional building-centric church, and then God directed us to a new season. I felt He was telling us He would take us to many communities around the world. Of course, we just assumed that would mean traveling everywhere again. It was 2019, and the Lord directed us to create video ministry exports and simply call it Living Room Church. A medium-sized fellowship reached out to us because their pastor had suddenly passed away. He had been there many years, and there were complicated concerns in the leadership. We provided them with these ministry videos through Living Room Church, and their fellowship and leadership began to grow. They went from being personality and building-centric to being Word-of-God-focused. While that was going on, suddenly people from other communities started joining us. Then in the middle of all that, the COVID pandemic hit. Living Room Church didn’t skip a beat. Of course, other ministries started doing online streaming during the pandemic, BUT Living Room Church was unique in that we weren’t modeled around the core demand for building attendance. We only have one priority—attendance to God’s Word. We have been told communities such as Alcoholics Anonymous share Living Room Church messages. Truckers and pilots indulge in God’s encouragement, sharing the daily prayers from Living Room Church. From college students to retirees, they’re reaching out to us enjoying God’s presence in their small groups. It truly has been an example of God showing us He remains ahead of the curve, setting us in the right place, even before plagues invade our world.
Q: How has the Living Room Church concept been uniquely different than pastoring a large traditional church?
A: Pastoring at a traditional church ministry has some definite muscle memory for Pam and me. Having grown up into it, traveling the world helping other pastors with their vision, and then pastoring full time in a large American evangelical church, it feels natural with predictable results. I think the uniqueness of what we do now with Living Room Church is that all the measurables have changed. Success in a traditional church is measured by people in the seats, hands raised at an altar call, dollars in the offering plate, and attendance at an event. I’ve been part of that for many years. The problem is that’s not what Jesus told us to do. He never specifically said make converts or attendees. He told us famously in Matthew 28:19, “Go and make disciples.” Measuring discipleship is quite complex with manmade standards.
For example, you can have a person faithfully volunteering for 20-plus years, taking all the awards for dedication to the organization, yet at the same time, be a failure at his marriage, raising children, or in his personal character. I’ve seen it happen and so have a thousand other pastors. The problem is, organizationally, you can only have one #1. When you’ve got millions of dollars in assets such as a church entity, you can unconsciously invert the priorities of God. When Genesis 1:26 sets the order of mankind having complete authority over the ‘stuff’ (paraphrase), the converse can become the subtle reality. Suddenly the ‘stuff’ has authority and rule over the people. When people serve the assets it’s contrary to God’s will, no matter how noble or religious it appears.
With Living Room Church, the number one priority is simply attendance to God’s Word and presence. Nothing competes with that. Of course, we have many measurables with social media and internet analytics, but the convincing anecdotal evidence is the lives transformed, homes changed, and families worshipping God together. The strange act of restricting faith from the rest of life by ritual and the walls of property attendance is disintegrated when you welcome God’s presence directly into your own living room. Those receiving Living Room Church ministry into their lives celebrate God’s presence in their homes, their world, and so they discover what Jesus said in John 15:7: “If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.” That’s a measurable that makes me excited to pastor because it promotes true Kingdom of God outcomes here on earth.
Q: The "Name it and Claim it" theology has been heavily scrutinized in the past few years. Is that what you are espousing in your book? Why or why not?
A: In all theology, there is a temptation to swing the pendulum off center. I was probably a teenager the first time I heard the phrase “Name it and claim it.” It’s fascinating that one little line can so severely divide the Christian Church. It’s disappointing when believers can be more impassioned to fight over opinions of theology than demonic strategies to destroy lives. “Name it and claim it” probably was an adage some well-meaning pastor or teacher came up with based off Mark 11:24, where Jesus said, “Whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.” In my experience as a minister, just that verse alone is enough to offend half the believers in North America. For many people, their life experience has been hard, difficult, a road littered with tears and tragedy. So, to insert Jesus’ words as an encouragement without context is often a truth many can’t handle. Then to take it further and make an adage out of it—and it also rhymes—well, that’s just a bridge too far.
In Live Life Strong, I dare to deal with matters of faith without breaking a bruised reed or quenching a smoking flax. The Heavenly Father’s heart is to help hurt and broken people be whole. It’s fine to believe that all things are possible until you’re in an impossible situation and the hope of an answer is so painful it seems sacrilegious. That’s where many people are, so I try with the Holy Spirit’s help to share truth that I’ve worked out by grace in my own trials. I’m not against an adage, and of course the songwriter in me loves a good rhyme, but the seriousness of an individual’s troubles requires the context of God’s unfailing truth.
Q: What are some key areas where you see people struggle the most in today's culture?
A: Depression and mental health issues tend to evolve into perpetual trauma like doom-spending, addiction, divorce, and many other things. The principal area I see people struggle in today’s culture is the same thing the people of Israel struggled with nearly 3500 years ago. It’s a heart condition called unbelief. God tells us in the book of Numbers and the book of Hebrews that the children of Israel stayed stuck wandering in the wilderness for 40 years because of an evil heart of unbelief. Religion tells us that it’s our performance and good works that impress God. The Good News of Jesus tells us something different. Hebrews 11:6 says, “Without faith it’s impossible to please God.” We live in such a performance culture, trying to impress each other with appearances, and yet 1 Samuel 16 says God looks at the inner heart. This is why our culture falls into a trap that’s thousands of years old.
Even Christians tend to think we can evolve into our true identities by just performing better. It’s an unconscious self-reliance that implies Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross is somehow superfluous in the light of our wonderful, good works. What an incredibly arrogant thought! But honestly, I’ve fallen into this trap myself. I have trampled on the precious gift of God’s grace by performing religious duties.
No wonder the people in the book of Acts 7 were enraged against Stephen when he reminded them that God didn’t live in temples made with hands. He convicted them of pride in their works, accomplishments, sacrifice, and architecture, and suddenly it was time to riot and kill him. Look around. The same activists and rioters are still burning our cities, killing, and destroying in the name of unbelief. It’s spiritual socialism in pursuit of the fictional island of Utopia.
Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 3:2 that “people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, and ungrateful.” That’s the root cause of our epidemic of mental health problems. It will only get worse if we keep turning inward, and away from Jesus’ command to give, and it shall be given unto us. We give Christ our life and suddenly we receive life, and life more abundant.
Q: What are your future plans for LRC?
A: As a pastor, I’m a steward helping to give oversight to this opportunity with Living Room Church. We want to continue to grow and remain conscious of Jesus’ words to Peter: “I will build My church, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.” The vision for growth God has given us is the activation of at least 1000 communities united together with the chief purpose of attending to God’s Word, sharing in prayer, communion, and worship. It’s not about promoting a ministry brand, but it’s all about His body, His ecclesia. Presently, we’re already active in over 100 countries. We use this entity to the extent that it serves the King of kings. Jesus’ church has nothing to do with a manmade building, temple, or cathedral. It’s His living body of envoys activated in His truth by His grace.
A: In all theology, there is a temptation to swing the pendulum off center. I was probably a teenager the first time I heard the phrase “Name it and claim it.” It’s fascinating that one little line can so severely divide the Christian Church. It’s disappointing when believers can be more impassioned to fight over opinions of theology than demonic strategies to destroy lives. “Name it and claim it” probably was an adage some well-meaning pastor or teacher came up with based off Mark 11:24, where Jesus said, “Whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.” In my experience as a minister, just that verse alone is enough to offend half the believers in North America. For many people, their life experience has been hard, difficult, a road littered with tears and tragedy. So, to insert Jesus’ words as an encouragement without context is often a truth many can’t handle. Then to take it further and make an adage out of it—and it also rhymes—well, that’s just a bridge too far.
In Live Life Strong, I dare to deal with matters of faith without breaking a bruised reed or quenching a smoking flax. The Heavenly Father’s heart is to help hurt and broken people be whole. It’s fine to believe that all things are possible until you’re in an impossible situation and the hope of an answer is so painful it seems sacrilegious. That’s where many people are, so I try with the Holy Spirit’s help to share truth that I’ve worked out by grace in my own trials. I’m not against an adage, and of course the songwriter in me loves a good rhyme, but the seriousness of an individual’s troubles requires the context of God’s unfailing truth.
Q: What are some key areas where you see people struggle the most in today's culture?
A: Depression and mental health issues tend to evolve into perpetual trauma like doom-spending, addiction, divorce, and many other things. The principal area I see people struggle in today’s culture is the same thing the people of Israel struggled with nearly 3500 years ago. It’s a heart condition called unbelief. God tells us in the book of Numbers and the book of Hebrews that the children of Israel stayed stuck wandering in the wilderness for 40 years because of an evil heart of unbelief. Religion tells us that it’s our performance and good works that impress God. The Good News of Jesus tells us something different. Hebrews 11:6 says, “Without faith it’s impossible to please God.” We live in such a performance culture, trying to impress each other with appearances, and yet 1 Samuel 16 says God looks at the inner heart. This is why our culture falls into a trap that’s thousands of years old.
Even Christians tend to think we can evolve into our true identities by just performing better. It’s an unconscious self-reliance that implies Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross is somehow superfluous in the light of our wonderful, good works. What an incredibly arrogant thought! But honestly, I’ve fallen into this trap myself. I have trampled on the precious gift of God’s grace by performing religious duties.
No wonder the people in the book of Acts 7 were enraged against Stephen when he reminded them that God didn’t live in temples made with hands. He convicted them of pride in their works, accomplishments, sacrifice, and architecture, and suddenly it was time to riot and kill him. Look around. The same activists and rioters are still burning our cities, killing, and destroying in the name of unbelief. It’s spiritual socialism in pursuit of the fictional island of Utopia.
Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 3:2 that “people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, and ungrateful.” That’s the root cause of our epidemic of mental health problems. It will only get worse if we keep turning inward, and away from Jesus’ command to give, and it shall be given unto us. We give Christ our life and suddenly we receive life, and life more abundant.
Q: What are your future plans for LRC?
A: As a pastor, I’m a steward helping to give oversight to this opportunity with Living Room Church. We want to continue to grow and remain conscious of Jesus’ words to Peter: “I will build My church, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.” The vision for growth God has given us is the activation of at least 1000 communities united together with the chief purpose of attending to God’s Word, sharing in prayer, communion, and worship. It’s not about promoting a ministry brand, but it’s all about His body, His ecclesia. Presently, we’re already active in over 100 countries. We use this entity to the extent that it serves the King of kings. Jesus’ church has nothing to do with a manmade building, temple, or cathedral. It’s His living body of envoys activated in His truth by His grace.
About Dr. Stephen Marshall:
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Dr. Stephen Marshall is the pastor of Living Room Church which reaches a wide audience on platforms such as Fox Business, New Nation, ABC, A&E, CNBC, BET, HGTV, CMT, TBN, TCT, and CTN, among others. He holds a Doctor of Theology from Logos University, and has written two other books, “31 Ways to Your Best Days,” and “A Little Boy’s Prayer.” For more information visit: https://livingroomchurch.org/. |
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